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The Application Form.
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Sirum
Runt


Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 2005
Location: Retrospection

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:38 pm    Post subject: The Application Form. Reply with quote

http://www.furc.steelangel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=32992&sid=0eb0d96320072b661a3155fbe76f3000#32992

Your Email:

^This is a really good idea. Having someone post their email address on a public board that webcrawlers can get to for whatever reason and that everyone can see. In fact, it is such a good idea, would Kitzibeth, Rivyn, Dalin, Kele or whoever put that in please post their private email address here? (:

Or explain why their email address needs to be posted when PMing them or unlocking their topic and posting a response to it there could work just as well.
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Shayde Enkiar
Map Wench, apparently?


Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Posts: 990
Location: In the sky, with diamonds.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sirum is a paranoid, paranoid little man <33 That aside. Yeah, it's not really necessary to email 'em, a lot of people don't regularly check their email anyways. A response on their thread would probably be a lot better. ^^ PMs suck.
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Sirum
Runt


Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 2005
Location: Retrospection

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shayde Enkiar wrote:
Sirum is a paranoid, paranoid little man <33


There are webcrawlers whose sole purpose is to gather up email addresses to spam the shit out of. Does that make me paranoid? ):
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Kele-De
Arch-Wench
Arch-Wench


Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 838
Location: Den of Iniquity

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[sarcasm]Publicly rejecting someone is a great idea.[/sarcasm]

It's there as a contact method. I've emailed perspective members back and forth several times. Especially if their history needs work or something. It's easier than trying to hunt them down via aim or furc. However, I have no problem changing the method of contact to forum pm, though I find that more unreliable than email.
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Sirum
Runt


Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 2005
Location: Retrospection

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's worked just fine before because the email addresses have only been on the private Applications board or in the inbox of the Applications head. Most people don't mind a few people knowing their email addy, but no other guild requires the public posting of email addressess.

You could just put down 'Prefered method of contact: PM or Email?' and '(Please enter email if you wish to be contacted by it)'.
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Shayde Enkiar
Map Wench, apparently?


Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Posts: 990
Location: In the sky, with diamonds.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's how it's run in most continuities, and you don't publicly 'reject' them-- that's not really the word for it-- you tell them what needs to be fixed before their character's allowed. When they fix it, they're allright, unless they step out of line RPwise.

Annnnd, I just realized you're right, Sirum! Hrm.
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Kitzibeth
Feel my love!
Feel my love!


Joined: 18 Oct 2002
Posts: 2725
Location: Mage's Guild, Ansteorra

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shayde, people do end up being rejected by the guild. There are dozens of failures-of-application on the App board.
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Sirum Hest: [It reads: It's great to be smart 'cause then you know stuff.]
Sirum Hest: [.. >>? It lacks a '- Kitzerina']
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Shayde Enkiar
Map Wench, apparently?


Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Posts: 990
Location: In the sky, with diamonds.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was describing how most forum-open-app committees work. I'm aware there have been rejections in ours. But I don't think it being public is really a big deal. PMs could work, but I'm still heavily in favour of the notify-them-on-their-thread method.
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Dissident
Board Lurker


Joined: 23 Oct 2002
Posts: 2323

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The results of an application, be it acceptance or rejection, should not be posted publicly. That's a private response.

The way I see it, this is the process involving a new member's application.

1) Potential member enters dream, roleplays for some time to gather a good example post. Reads Anstepedia, follows "Join us!" link.

2) Potential member posts an application on the "New Applicants" board.

3) Moderator notices application, posts a message along the lines of "We've received your application, please allow up to a week for review." Moderator locks the thread, posts a duplicate application on the "Applications Committee" board for review.

4) All comments and deliberation are discussed in the copy of the application posted by Shayde, Kele-De or any moderator in the "Applications Committee" board. No replies are posted to the original application in the "New Applicants" board.

5) Any concerns or comments are relayed to the applicant through E-mail or private messages, whichever they prefer. Again, nothing is posted on the original application. Communication is done privately between the applicant and Shayde, Kele-De, or anybody upon whom we have agreed to act as an envoy.

6) After a week, the decision is delivered via private E-mail. Whether the applicant is accepted or rejected, a copy of their application is sent to them via private message. If they're rejected, this is bundled with a listing of all concerns presented. The PM'ed copy is important, because of the next step.

7) The application is deleted from the "New Applicants" forum. The copy of the application posted in "Applications Committee" is archived for reference.

8) If the applicant is rejected, they still have their own private copy of their application to modify and re-apply with, but it's no longer on the board as it's no longer an active application.

Nothing should be posted in the New Applicants board aside from applications themselves and one second post in each acknowledging the fact that they've been recognized and are under review. Admission decisions should NOT be publicly displayed to members outside of the Applications Committee. It's a PR thing. Potentials may not want to apply if they think everbody else will laugh at them for being rejected. Privacy is key. This is standard protocol for most forum-based web communities.

As for E-mail addresses, as far as I know, an E-mail address is a requirement for registration on this forum, but it doesn't have to be displayed. Keep this requirement, and make "Notify on new Private Message" a default "Yes" in registration preferences, so potentials will receive E-mails automatically when they receive a private message. The application should clearly state that unless the applicant indicates otherwise, all communication will take place via private message on the forum. I can modify the sticky in the board to state this as well.
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Dalin Kayde, Veudir X'Tare, Cerris T'Kel, Paran Narel, etc.
"Ansteorra is as high as what I get for being a pelican."


Last edited by Dissident on Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:38 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Kele-De
Arch-Wench
Arch-Wench


Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 838
Location: Den of Iniquity

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm lazy, I was just going to put the link to the application on the Applications board and leave it up there. Rather than doing all that work.

Dissident wrote:
Nothing should be posted in the New Applicants board aside from applications themselves and one second post in each acknowledging the fact that they've been recognized and are under review. Admission decisions should NOT be publicly displayed to members outside of the Applications Committee. It's a PR thing. Potentials may not want to apply if they think everbody else will laugh at them for being rejected. Privacy is key. This is standard protocol for most forum-based web communities.


I am in complete agreement with this, which is why I wanted a contact point with potential members. Not to mention, I give them all my contact info should they have any questions. It's come in handy in the past for helping with history before as well.
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Dissident
Board Lurker


Joined: 23 Oct 2002
Posts: 2323

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posting a link won't work for archival purposes, since once the post is deleted from the original "New Applicants" board, that link will die. Additionally, links on these forums from three or four years back have a habit of inexplicably dying. The fewer inter-topic linking you do, the better. It takes very little effort to copy the contents of one post to another, I just clocked it at twenty seconds with very little hurry. If you use the "Quote" button, you can very easily copy all of the formatting and BBCode as well.

Realistically, while that process is eight or so steps, the actual work a moderator has to do amounts to perhaps one minute of time spent.
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Dalin Kayde, Veudir X'Tare, Cerris T'Kel, Paran Narel, etc.
"Ansteorra is as high as what I get for being a pelican."
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Kele-De
Arch-Wench
Arch-Wench


Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 838
Location: Den of Iniquity

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dissident wrote:
Posting a link won't work for archival purposes, since once the post is deleted from the original "New Applicants" board, that link will die. Additionally, links on these forums from three or four years back have a habit of inexplicably dying. The fewer inter-topic linking you do, the better. It takes very little effort to copy the contents of one post to another, I just clocked it at twenty seconds with very little hurry. If you use the "Quote" button, you can very easily copy all of the formatting and BBCode as well.

Realistically, while that process is eight or so steps, the actual work a moderator has to do amounts to perhaps one minute of time spent.


I know. I'm just lazy. ^^ If it's that unreliable though, it's not a problem to copy and paste. I wasn't going to delete them. I was going to leave them there for archival purposes, but it makes no difference one way or the other.
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Dissident
Board Lurker


Joined: 23 Oct 2002
Posts: 2323

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair enough, but here's the thing...

The archives are for the benefit of the Applications Committee, not the public. I think the question of "who is this here for?" should be our guiding star for deciding who has access to what. We don't want to leave archived applications up for public consumption, since the last thing we want is for new applicants to just go through and make applications from swatches taken from other, older, better written applications. That makes it too easy for them, and hardly original.
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Dalin Kayde, Veudir X'Tare, Cerris T'Kel, Paran Narel, etc.
"Ansteorra is as high as what I get for being a pelican."
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Kele-De
Arch-Wench
Arch-Wench


Joined: 06 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking it might be good to have some applications up for example to help others, but I can see this point as well. No big deal. We can delete them.
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Dissident
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Joined: 23 Oct 2002
Posts: 2323

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A single sample application's not a bad idea, but I think just one's enough.
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Dalin Kayde, Veudir X'Tare, Cerris T'Kel, Paran Narel, etc.
"Ansteorra is as high as what I get for being a pelican."
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